Fly On The Wall With Souray And Gainey

Have you ever wished to be a fly on a wall when a player and his agent negotiate a contract with a general manager?

Wouldn't it be interesting to be privy to such a conversation?

If you were to imagine yourself in a players position, or maybe in the GM's shoes, how do you think it would all unfurl?

This conversation takes place in Sheldon Souray's agent, Paul Theofanous' office. Bob Gainey is calling into a set up meeting, to pick up where talks last left off - which in this case, is practically nowhere land.

The dialogue contained here, pick up right after Gainey and the agent exchange pleasantries, and just before Souray arrives late.

With the free agency door about to swing open in a matter of days, I tried to place myself in the position of both Souray and Gainey, playing a type of double devil's advocate of sorts, to be fair to the negotiating process.

The numbers mentioned in talks are equivalent to what has been reported as the offer Souray turned down. Personally, I find the offer to be low, but that is beside the point. I kept it as such, just to keep it real.

Writting up a one sided conversation would give little accuracy to how such things likely go when parties are truly attempting to find common ground and sign a deal. Seeing as both negotiators play the mind game to different extents, I let the conversation flow as I wrote.

All this purely speculative of course - who even knows if this is how it works?

In the end, no deal is struck, but the parties have gotten closer on some fronts, while disagreeing on others. At the end of this discussion, it will be your own opinion whether the parties will make a deal. I left it wide open.


BG: I set up this call, seeing as there are only 100 hours or so left, to touch base on where Sheldon stands in terms of our latest offer...the second one, which is 3 years, 1 at 4.7 and the final 2 at 5, which totals one million more than the initial offer. You did receive the fax including all of Julien's details, taxes and such?

PT: You sent it, and we received it at 9:30 a.m. our time.

BG: Any thoughts on it?

PT: I informed Sheldon as soon as it was received here. Sheldon told me he appreciated the offer, the return offer....he should be getting in here any moment now. He just called to say he was held up in traffic, about five minutes away. He told me that he was intending to call you himself before next Saturday...

BG: Is that right? Because I haven't heard a thing....just all this speculation going about...other teams calling me actually.

PT: He said to me that he wouldn't be calling to specifically discuss dollars with you....

BG: Really? Then....

PT: He mentioned he wished to talk about direction, your larger scale plans. It's not all about money for him, Bob, he's cashing in either way he goes...

BG: (Laughing) It's funny how I hear that so often. Especially when.....an offer gets thumbs down or ignored.

PT: Bob we can't reply when we've nothing to add. We said no...wait and see. We didn't say no, not a chance.

BG: Paul, back awhile it was "there's alot of time to do a deal"....we have five days and now it's "wait and see". Does my teams agenda come into play at all. Seems like the track you guys are taking is an attempt to get me to negotiate against myself with the clock ticking in the background.

PT: That's not our intent...

BG: What I'm asking of you guys today, is for a counter proposal of sorts, so we can establish where we're at. Are we far off? Are we close enough to get into detail? Can we get there? Whatever. Something...

PT: When Sheldon gets here....

BG: If we can't reach into numbers, meet somewhere in there...I have to move onto considering options....which works against this coming together...

PT: Sheldon can answer that when he's in....if that's his choice to.

BG: It's imperative, Paul. My time's getting tight. I won't let myself be handcuffed. I've put calls into 3 agents, requesting time with their clients come midnight July 1....I can't ring them up and say....my offer's dependant on so and so's last open ended chat.

PT: Sheldon just came in Bob, give us a minute, okay? Just touching down on a detail or two.
Ninety seconds pass.

Sheldon Souray: Bob, sorry to keep you waiting.

BG: How is the newborn doing Sheldon...everything good?

SS: Everything's great Bob, and I'm glad you called. I was calling you tomorrow, not sure if Paul was about to tell you!

BG: He did mention...what's on your mind?

SS: Well I wanted to know about Mike, Radek who you're looking to try to bring in. I guess the Russian defenseman didn't work out.

BG: Sheldon, our plans are to go after a player, either a UFA or via trade, that will immediatly make the team better straight away on the top lines. Our number one priority is locking you up, though. We have a short list of about 8 players (laughs), and some very interesting options attached to them.

SS: Names? Yashin?

BG: Get serious!

SS: Just that I heard you saying about closing no doors...

BG: I gotta say those things Sheldon, one never offends an agent in print. Not sure I want to divulge names to an unsigned player, but if it helps...possibilities are Drury, Briere, talked to Doug about Marleau - wants the sun and moon, not eliminating Forsberg still, at lower end. There's others as...

SS: So what about Radek and Mike? Are you making an offer...

BG: Mike Johnson?

SS: Mike! Sorry, Ryder, I meant, because...well he was our top scorer and...

BG: You come first Sheldon, I can't stress that enough. Ryder comes after.

SS: I don't want to meddle in his demands, but my guess is he'll head to arbitration like he almost did last year. Seeing what 30 goal guys are getting right now, I have to have questions about whether both of us are affordable together, you know.

BG: Are you suggesting that if I were to sign him by the weekend....no, let me put it this way, are you thinking that if the both of you get the money your looking for, there's nothing left for anyone else to be brought on board?

SS: It's not about the money I'll seek, Bob. The team...

BG: If it isn't then why didn't you sign either of our two offers....if it's not about money?

SS: (Long pause) I just want fair money, Bob.

BG: Our offer was fair enough, don't you think?

SS: In terms what might be my market value....I don't know....I'm not really sure.

BG: Well Sheldon....I guess the snag here is....the only way for you to be sure is to hit the open market. That's what I'm attempting to avoid here, because what that day might mean to you, means an entirely different thing to us.

SS: I understand that!BG: We won't be calling you that day. We'll be pursuing other areas....and agressively. The dollars targeted to you....will be offered elsewhere...to possibly as many as two or three players, depending. So it's in both our best interests to....

SS: Well I want to try to find a way to stay in Montreal, Bob, but all the questions I have are being answered vaguely, and I just want to know....I want a clear picture of what happens after you sign me....

BG: We try to win the Stanley Cup, Sheldon! (laughs)

SS: (laughing)....yeah, but when?

BG: Let me see here, where did I put that crystal ball? (laughing still), It says two to three years, maybe...the crystal ball is foggy....but my tarot card reader says that if I don't sign a certain defenseman...

SS: Niinimaa, right!

BG: (busting a gut) Nah, too many i's to dot on that contract, man!

SS: Okay now, seriously Bob. I want some answers to things. I need to know where the team is going...more precisely.

BG: Sheldon, what did you think about what Hamilton did? Our immediate future....it starts there. In regards to that, it's doubtful that after July 1, that any offers of substance from us are given to Johnson and Bonk. They both underperformed in our estimation, and the offers I'm prepared to give them to return here are only slightly greater than those of the players I feel can replace them....several Hamilton candidates....

SS: Yes, but that's not...

BG: ...the candidates are ready....that saves dollars my good friend. Lots of them. Ryder, it's unavoidable... will take up a chunk of that and Tomas has earned and deserved a honest increase....doubled if not more. I'm preparing myself for the eventuality that Ryder's salary won't be our offer, it'll be the arbitration settlement. That happens later in July, of course....after the free agents are scattered all over the league...

SS: Okay then, can you tell me this then...

BG: Sheldon, I'll answer any question of yours as honestly as I can....but what I do not know, and what I can't predict, I refuse to lie about.

SS: Put it this way, then...if Ryder gets 5 million, like....a worse case scenario for example...if he gets 5, two weeks after all the more prominant free agents disappear...or you've signed a pair of players....maybe including me. Then what happens then?

BG: Well how do you want me to answer such a hypothesis? To be truthful....how can I know. I could say that I don't agree Ryder's worth that kind of money to us....but damnit, I like the kid, I like him alot. Who knows...we sign the right centerman and he's a 50 goal scorer...

SS: No doubt...

BG: But with an arbitration awarded contract, it's one year only, he's free next July, and we're stiffed! Now if the arbitration award is beyond our assessment, the options are to walk away - which I'd hesitate to do...or sign and trade him, which would....

SS: You'd do that, really?

BG: Given certain choices....if pigeonholed in a sense....possibly.

SS: And can I assume, when you say in certain situations...that you mean after signing me?

BG: That's what we're trying to accomplish here today, isn't it? I mean that that is my goal...first and foremost.

SS: You keep coming back to that!

BG: Of course, what would you expect. I want you signed Sheldon, but I'm not a reckless man. You're asking me for defined, definite, and finite answers... and I don't know what else to tell you. I have an agenda to follow....each avenue has inevitable repercussions...in all that....my analogy would be....you are the first domino. What happens with you, affects whatever we do going forward. You want honest answers on outcomes I have no way of predicting. I won't deceive you.... you know we really should have had this chat back in early April....

SS: We had lots of time to....

BG: I have many players and contracts to deal with... I can't make that call. Even if I had....Paul's still listening in I'm sure, it's his payday too....

PT: Still here listening in Bob...

BG:...even if I had, would it have even gotten back to you? My apologies Paul, I've seen a few...

SS: Well, we're having that chat now Bob, so let's let it be as productive as it can be then.

BG: Give me a number then, Sheldon....let's try that tact...see what it gives.

SS: I'm uncomfortable with that route....I can't assess....

BG: Why not?

SS: I just won't be comfortable...

PT: Six million a year Bob, let's start there....

SS: Paul, shut up (laughing), no numbers....Bob...

BG: Paul, how would I ever justify paying him more than Markov....fit yourself into my shoes and riddle me that!

SS: Bob....can you hold on a second please...Paul's asking me to put you on hold, I apologize...

BG: Do what you gotta do....I'm here.

(Souray and Theofanous discuss matters for a brief minute. The fly on the wall is not privelege to this discussions. The fly, unfortunately, cannot be in both offices at once. It has just landed on a picture of the 1986 Stanley Cup champions when...)

SS: Bob, please disregard Paul's last comments....

BG: Okay, Sheldon....but is that amount your ballpark figure? I have to ask...

SS: No, no, no...I'm not even going there....Bob, you won't get a number out of me. Again it's not about....

BG: Sheldon, I've been as honest as I can be with you. I've probably revealed more than I have wanted to, to you, in this discussion, and I..... don't think we've made in an inch of progress.

SS: I wouldn't say that....

BG: Well we haven't, I haven't. All things considered if we were to pick this back up in a day....I honestly would not have a better idea where to start.

SS: I don't share that opinion.

BG: Of course you don't! You've revealed little in the way of....you're asking all the questions....to things I have no solid answers for...you've revealed no salary demands, no preferred team direction, no personal insights as to your family situation, heck, your agent even faxed us the medical reports from the shoulder surgery rather than calling me courteously...I had to call Paul myself for further details...and he was surprised I did! No matter how much I tell you, no matter how much I divulge in regard to team plans....I still have nothing from you guys to build upon...nothing that enables an offer coming forth.

SS: Okay, listen up! I know I'm complicating your existance....

BG: Tell me about it...

SS: ...but I just need to know....in whatever way you can assure me....that I'm returning to a winning team.

BG: Didn't I ask you earlier about your thoughts on what happened in Hamilton?

SS: Yes...but I didn't have a chance to answer it.

BG: Well, it's like this my friend. The worst of worst cases....is that I don't get the free agents I'm willing to pursue. And if that's the case...so be it. Unlike last season.... I should have trusted my instincts.... I won't be calling to sign what would be our third, fourth, fifth choices...to hell with 'em. I can live with bringing up hard working players over big dollars any day...

SS: Not necessarily a bad thing, but...

BG: When I suggested earlier that there were 7 or 8 players in our sights...I wasn't bluffing. There are 3 defenseman, 2 centers, and a wing on either side. All the remaining RFA's....we've absolutely no interest in. All but two are North American....and beyond that, if there is no one I feel that can help this team move forward...for the money, I'll stick with players we've been grooming....

SS: Staying with the plan....

BG: You're a big part of the plan, Sheldon...everything rests on you...but because you guys gave us no sign of life a month ago...all my plans, backup plans....are geared towards moving ahead. Even if you told me whatever lie you wanted me to tell you... about what would make you sign....I won't do it. I won't put myself in a position of dealing with a resentful player at any time down the line.

SS: You're not going to budge on any...

BG: Godamnit, Sheldon! What do you want me to say?

SS: Changing the subject a bit, would you throw in a no-trade clause into my contract?

BG: Whoa! Where's that coming from?

SS: Just wondering. Should things sour, I'd want to have the option of choosing destinations....

BG: Hold on a minute...with that kind of thinking. Do you envision...with things sourring as you say...that all options would then be open for you to choose?

SS: I understand that point, Bob. It's just that it makes the first option mine and no one else's.

BG: You think? Who chooses the time frame? The circumstances?

SS: I understand your reaction to that, Bob....

BG: It's not a reaction Sheldon....it's tons of possible scenarios neither of us can predict. I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility of such a clause...but it's attached to the contract size...dollars and length...

SS: Of course it is, but...

BG: Confidentially here, for our ears only....honest to God's truth....there's a GM who's called me at least a dozen times since the end of the season...pertaining to your eventual departure....asking if I am interested in taking on the type of contract we are presently discussing....he's damn desperate to find a take for this player of his....his offers decrease with every call and it scares the crap out of me to even think about it.....

SS: McCabe? Jovanovski?

BG:... scares me to think that...well...we could be in that boat too...

SS: But Bob, you are trying to sign me, aren't you not...

BG: Yes, Sheldon....but a deal that suffocates us both in worst cases....it's beneficial to neither of our interests...you follow?

SS: So the no-trade clause is out the window then?

BG: No...not entirely...not for the duration to speak of.

SS: Well then....what?

BG: Depends on it's length...on it's size...

SS: I see..

BG: Sheldon...give me floor here for a minute....we're getting nowhere fast while time's running...

SS: Okay..

BG: Allow me to throw some things out at you....that you may not be aware of. First, at the trade deadline, did you think I was going to trade you?

SS: Geez, I don't know. I had worries.

BG: What did I tell you as it approached?

SS: Alot of things, man. About disappointing fans. The record. The playoffs. Inquiries.

BG: Sheldon, I told you firmly, once my mind was made up, that I'd only be listening to calls in your regard.... I wouldn't be doing the calling....

SS: It wasn't really reassuring!

BG: Oh no! I didn't trade you off for a draftpick, did I? Sheldon, I didn't make a single call....didn't return a call....all based on the belief of what was best for the teams chances. I was prepared to....risk hanging on to you even if you might sign elsewhere....risk missing the playoffs....but still I listened to offers because that's my job...and we held onto you because of lots of reasons....there was the stretch drive...the fan interest in the record.....what it would have done to the team spirit...but the biggest reason of all is that I wanted you to stay...
SS: Yes, you've told me all before, back at that time....

BG: I kept my promises....

SS: For sure and...

BG: Now listen....to be completely honest here....the offers Philly got for Forsberg....that the Blues got for Tkachuk...I didn't receice any calls of the like for you....those I did get were not from teams that saw you as anything more than a rent-a-player for the playoffs....so I was low-balled left and right....not even a first rounder, Sheldon. Before I got these measley offers....they were all preceded by questions concerning you, your missus, and California....California this, and California that...every call..

SS: I was quite firm in publically denying all of that, Bob, I said it over and....

BG: Sheldon, the thing is....the rumours did hurt talks then....if I had been intenting to deal you....it would have been for squat! Now it is my job to know what you're market value is. So in that regard I made calls...midseason up to the All Star break...I had to have answers to the California questions myself....to gauge your value...to assess it for the trade deadline as well as July 1st, and my calls went to teams on the West coast....all four...and do you want to know what I found....I found little in...

SS: You're kidding...you think you can bluff me here....please Bob don't take....

BG: Sheldon I wouldn't do it...you know me better than that...do you want to hear about what happened?

SS: I'm not sure this is constructive in any sense...

BG: I'm gonna tell you anyhow because...

PT: Bob, Bob, Bob....whoa there, whatever you think you're going to tell Shelly about the coast teams...I'll counter with what it is I know about it

BG: Fine Paul, if you know of the offers I've received, feel free....the floor is yours, man. If you know of the interest I was able to gauge...go right ahead...

PT: I just don't see the sense in trying to persuade...

SS: I'm going to take a piss...

PT: Look Sheldon has a very sound take on his worth....money will be there no matter where he chooses to land. But it's not about that for him, it's about fit and....

BG: If it's not about money for you, understand this damnit...it is for us....I got 15 million to play around with...that can go fast real soon...in this puzzle, I have to place the biggest piece....most important one first to go forward...number me a friggin' figure so I start with that...in answering all Sheldon's questions on team composition....give me a figure in a three year range..I'll throw in the no trade on the final two then...

PT: You'll do the clause then?

BG: Only in consequence with ....sorry, that's the wrong term....only attached to a specific length...meaning a three years...

PT: The two final years...

BG: I'm willing to go.....(THUMP!)

PT: What the heck was that noise? Bob....

BG: Sorry.

SS: Back....

BG: Flipping horse fly got in the office! Killed it!

PT: Sheldon, Bob's just given into three years, final two with the clause...

SS: Is that right! Then tell me then, what the coast teams had to say now...

BG: You might be in for a shocker....it's not good....they brought up too many questions when I talked with them....there was concerns about lifestyle....

SS: Why does that stuff need to be discussed now...I'd just like to know what they offered for me..if you would...

BG: It ties in with why I got offered what I did....it was the context in which they took the discussions...it wasn't my aim to....Okay, I'm gonna stop right here for a second....all cities and teams have particulars...some things I want to ask you about Montreal...

SS: Huh? What do mean? Tell me about...

BG: Promise, we'll get back to it. I promise you. I just want to ask you a few things about Montreal, from the perspective of an outsider, when the Canadiens traded for you....what were your impressions before....what were your first thoughts were coming here....maybe we're getting away from being at a place where I can ask this again, so I'm asking it now...

SS: We'll whatever! Just as long as we get back on the subject...

BG: We will, rest assured...tell me your first impressions being traded to Montreal....I wasn't here seven years ago.. to know about that time...

SS: I was excited...shit scared truthfully to come here. I had lots of worries but knew I'd play more at that time...

BG: What was the first thing that you found....impressed you?

SS: Oh, definitely Lemaire at the airport. I played for Jacques before of course. He was assistant to Houle....he came and took me from the airport. Incredibly classy!

BG: But we do that almost as policy and practice....meet the player aquired when he lands...take him...

SS: No, no...you're not following Bob, he came to Newark International, he flew down....we came up here together...

BG: No way....why in the world would he...

SS: He knew me....always liked me. Lemaire told me he recommended me strongly to Reggie, and really appreciated it that he was able to make the trade...

BG: Quite a first impression...

SS: He hates the press so much, it's awful. On the plane over, we talked alot about it. He gave me tons of valuable advice how to deal with it...the positive influences it has...he really believed in me, like big time...

BG: What advice...what in particular did he say about the press...

SS: Just how to cater to them. Look them in the eyes when answering questions, win or lose or play bad...be there...don't shy away and hide...stand up and offer up...be honest...don't squirm with the truth....all stuff that worked well for me....that I've passed to the kids really...

BG: I just can't believe all that from Lemaire....after some games....the guy undressed in the showers practically...

SS: He witnessed what had worked for others I guess....it's funny!

BG: Oh yeah, I'll have to bring it up next time....any other things..positive about Montreal, about the team...you'd say made lasting impressions like that?

SS: The injuries, the first time with the wrist...the good training and positive support and stuff...never feeling left out and that. When all hell broke loose with Angelica a year and a half back...talks me and you had then....how brutal I played in those days... I let everybody down in a way....you never flinched.

BG:You weren't the first player I'd seen go through that you know....

SS: It's small time now....really....you've had things....you helped me keep a straight head on....has lots to do with why me and Angie got back...

BG: Kids my friend...just kids...

SS: And all the teams wives helping me with Valentina and stuff...it's gonna be um....damn.

BG: What is it?

SS: Anything else you want to know?

BG: Save for it for another....okay? You want to know about the West still?

SS: Absolutely, man. Tell me!

BG: Only Burke called and...

SS: No way!

BG: Oh yes way..but it was fruitless, nothing he was willing to part with....can you blame him?

SS:Geez no!

BG: I couldn't talk about Perry or Penner, Getzlaf, Beauchemin...nada....didn't have a first rounder to give up....asked him why he even bothered to call....just kicking tires really....didn't get any further on Craig Rivet either....it was a five minute call....no returns.

SS: What about the Sharks then.

BG: They offered what we got for Craig, plus the problem he just layed on the Leafs. Doug's an excellent manager...don't give crap what anybody thinks...he just does what's best in his mind.

SS: Why didn't you take that deal?

BG: I did...oh you mean for you? No it was...

SS: No I meant for Craig, but would you have taken it for me?

BG: He didn't offer it for you, honestly, he sought Rivet because he was looking beyond last playoffs into this year...

SS: Is that a fact?

BG: Doug did resign him!

SS: And Lombardi don't want to know, right? He's said stuff publically I believe...missed a good chance to shut the heck up!

BG: And Nonis was and still is too capped to consider it.

SS: The whole west coast thing, it's just a bunch of.....

BG: You've never said anything pro or con in that area.

SS: Paul said three years, right..why is that? Why not four, Bob?

BG: I wouldn't have you running out at the same time as our highest paid player again...not wise.

SS: But it was set up like that last time....

BG: Did I think you were gonna score 26 goals?

SS: I'm not happy about three years, any thoughts about five then?

BG: None at all...(laughs) if you were 25 maybe then I'd consider it.

SS: I have to think in terms of this being possibly my last contract...in a way.

BG: We could do two and do this whole process over again then....

SS: This contract, this money at this time, it represents the rest of my family's life...the kids generation...I was hoping to near 20 million....the years only being important if it reaches that amount.

BG: So if you were saying you get an offer of....say 3 times 6...not good enough?

SS: Four at 20 is it.

BG: Well our offer is 4.7 then two years, both with the clause, at 5....14.7 all told....if I were....not that I am going to....if we were to add another 4.7 year in there making four years all told....it hits 19.4...we're $600,000 off, right?

SS: We're talking $150,000 a year...

BG: But If I go to 4, off comes the clause....because I'll need the flexibility then, we drafted six defenseman this weekend, in four years, and with the guys we have coming up in the years leading there...I need that window open...you have to understand that...

SS: $150,000 Bob, with the clause...

PT: It's a bargain...a loyalty discount for godsakes!

BG: I could ponder that overnight if you..... consider two years both no trade then....at 5 per.

SS: See, that's a deal I'd prefer elsewhere....where I could be absolutely sure that power play minutes turn in to goals again....and in two years...hit the market a second time....with a better chance even....

BG: What about that 20 then? That last contract! This is getting like trying to hit a butterfly with a flyswatter....you're wavering all over on me....you know what you're guaranteed of here....

SS: Don't swat the butterfly Bob, it'll ruin your image!

BG: No I've got notes here...we've just pursued three different avenues....I zero in...you back down....which team do you like for two season to give you big numbers?

SS: Detroit, Pittsburgh....

BG: In the east now....wavering....your game is divide and conquer here...

SS: Never heard of it.

BG: I play that too...fire your agent....we're doing alright by ourselves.....save the commission fees and bills...you get back more than your 150 per annum....no

PT: Hey, smart guy...

SS: I'll think about two with the Habs then....but be prepared to come up some...

BG: There you go again....but there's progress here I think...

PT: I think we're selling ourselves short....there's foolish money out there...

BG: There's none here....I pressume Sheldon....you want to win don't you not?

SS: We've made progress....but deal with Ryder if possible....and Drury over Briere....

PT: Bob, should we get to July first, our intention is not to sign the first day out....we're thinking of watching it play out...

BG: That changes quick when money and opportunity conspire correctly....it can change like it did with Shanahan last year....nothing's carved and best intentions and promises flee with it....

SS: I like some of what we touched on....I want to sit back a day....talk to the wife some.

BG: We can do that...if you want....we did get somewhere, I think....but here's the thing....our money and best offer will not compete with some other deals you might get tendered later....so pushing me to July is backing me off a cliff really.

SS: Give us a time to be back here tomorrow then....

BG: Early as you can....seven my time is too early for you....ten or eleven is more like it....your time.

PT: Bob, you get in there at seven...

SS: I'll get down here earlier, beat that damn traffic in...

BG: Okay give my best to all.....later.